via
Salon
In recent years, there’s been a small genre of left-of-center journalism that, following
President Obama’s lead, endeavors to prove that things on Planet Earth are not just going well, but have, in fact,
never been better. This is an inherently subjective claim, of course; it requires that one buy into
the idea of human progress,
for one thing. But no matter how it was framed, there’s at least one
celebrated leftist activist, author and journalist who’d disagree: Chris
Hedges.
In fact, in his latest book, “
Wages of Rebellion: The Moral Imperative of Revolt,”
Hedges argues that the world is currently at a crisis point the likes
of which we’ve never really seen. There are similarities between our
time and the era of the 1848 revolutions throughout Europe — or the
French Revolutionary era that preceded them — he says. But in many ways,
climate change least among them, the stakes this time are much higher.
According to Hedges, a revolution is coming; we just don’t yet know
when, where, how — or on whose behalf.
Recently, Salon
spoke over the phone with Hedges to discuss his book, why he thinks our
world is in for some massive disruptions, and why we need
revolutionaries now more than ever. A transcript of our conversation
which has been edited for clarity and length can be found below.
Do you think we are in a revolutionary era now? Or is it more something on the horizon?
It’s with us already, but with this caveat: it is what
Gramsci
calls interregnum, this period where the ideas that buttress the old
ruling elite no longer hold sway, but we haven’t articulated something
to take its place.
That’s what that essay I quote by
Alexander Berkman, “The Invisible Revolution,” talks about. He likens it
to a pot that’s beginning to boil. So it’s already taking place,
although it’s subterranean. And the facade of power — both the physical
facade of power and the ideological facade of power — appears to remain
intact. But it has less and less credibility.
There are
all sorts of neutral indicators that show that. Low voter turnout, the
fact that Congress has an approval rating of 7 percent, that polls
continually reflect a kind of pessimism about where we are going, that
many of the major systems that have been set in place — especially in
terms of internal security — have no popularity at all.
All
of these are indicators that something is seriously wrong, that the
government is no longer responding to the most basic concerns, needs,
and rights of the citizenry. That is [true for the] left and right. But
what’s going to take it’s place, that has not been articulated. Yes, we
are in a revolutionary moment; but maybe it’s a better way to describe
it as a revolutionary process.
Is there a revolutionary consciousness building in America?
Well,
it is definitely building. But until there is an ideological framework
that large numbers of people embrace to challenge the old ideological
framework, nothing is going to happen. Some things can happen; you can
have sporadic uprisings as you had in Ferguson or you had in Baltimore.
But until they are infused with that kind of political vision, they are
reactive, in essence.
So you have, every 28 hours, a
person of color, usually a poor person of color, being killed with
lethal force — and, of course, in most of these cases they are unarmed.
So people march in the streets and people protest; and yet the killings
don’t stop. Even when they are captured on video. I mean we have videos
of people being murdered by the police and the police walk away. This is
symptomatic of a state that is ossified and can no longer respond
rationally to what is happening to the citizenry, because it exclusively
serves the interest of corporate power.
We have, to quote
John Ralston Saul,
“undergone a corporate coup d’état in slow motion” and it’s over. The
normal mechanisms by which we carry out incremental and piecemeal reform
through liberal institutions no longer function. They have been seized
by corporate power — including the press. That sets the stage for
inevitable blowback, because these corporations have no internal
constraints, and now they have no external constraints. So they will
exploit, because, as Marx understood, that’s their nature, until
exhaustion or collapse.
What do you think is the most likely way that the people will respond to living in these conditions?
That
is the big unknown. When it will come is unknown. What is it that will
trigger it is unknown. You could go back and look at past uprisings,
some of which I covered — I covered all the revolutions in Eastern
Europe; I covered the two Palestinian uprisings; I covered the street
demonstrations that eventually brought down Slobodan Milosevic — and
it’s usually something banal.
As a reporter, you know
that it’s there; but you never know what will ignite it. So you have
Lenin, six weeks before the revolution, in exile in Switzerland, getting
up and saying, We who are old will never live to see the revolution.
Even the purported leaders of the opposition never know when it’s
coming. Nor do they know what will trigger it.
What kind of person engages in revolutionary activity? Is there a specific type?
There
are different types, but they have certain characteristics in common.
That’s why I quote theologian Reinhold Niebuhr when he talks about
“sublime madness.”
I think that sublime madness — James
Baldwin writes it’s not so much that [revolutionaries] have a vision,
it’s that they are possessed by it. I think that’s right. They are often
difficult, eccentric personalities by nature, because they are stepping
out front to confront a system of power [in a way that is] almost a
kind of a form of suicide. But in moments of extremity, these rebels are
absolutely key; and that you can’t pull off seismic change without
them.
You’ve said that we don’t know where the
change will come from, and that it could just as easily take a
right-wing, reactionary form as a leftist one. Is there anything lefties
can do to influence the outcome? Or is it out of anyone’s control?
There’s
so many events as societies disintegrate that you can’t predict. They
play such a large part in shaping how a society goes that there is a lot
of it that is not in your control.
For example, if you
compare the breakdown of Yugoslavia with the breakdown of Czechoslovakia
— and I covered both of those stories — Yugoslavia was actually the
Eastern European country best-equipped to integrate itself into Europe.
But Yugoslavia went bad. When the economy broke down and Yugoslavia was
hit with horrific hyperinflation, it vomited up these terrifying figures
in the same way that Weimar vomited up the Nazi party. Yugoslavia tore
itself to pieces.
If things unravel [in the U.S.], our
backlash may very well be a rightwing backlash — a very frightening
rightwing backlash. We who care about populist movements [on the left]
are very weak, because in the name of anti-communism
these movements have been destroyed;
we are almost trying to rebuild them from scratch. We don’t even have
the language to describe the class warfare that is being unleashed upon
us by this tiny, rapacious, oligarchic elite. But we on the left are
very disorganized, unfocused, and without resources.
In terms of a
left-wing populism having to build itself back up from scratch, do you
see the broad coalition against the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) as a
hint of what that might look like? Or would you not go that far?
No, I would.
I
think that if you look at what’s happened after Occupy, it’s either
spawned or built alliances with a series of movements; whether it’s
#BlackLivesMatter, whether it’s the Fight for $15 campaign, whether it’s
challenging the TPP. I think they are all interconnected and, often
times — at least when I’m with those activists — there is a political
consciousness that I find quite mature.
Are you optimistic about the future?
I
covered war for 20 years; we didn’t use terms like pessimist or
optimist, because if you were overly optimistic, it could get you
killed. You really tried to read the landscape as astutely as you could
and then take calculated risks based on the reality around you, or at
least on the reality insofar as you could interpret it. I kind of bring
that mentality out of war zones.
If we are not brutal
about diagnosing what we are up against, then all of our resistance is
futile. If we think that voting for Hillary Clinton … is really going to
make a difference, then I would argue we don’t understand corporate
power and how it works. If you read the writings of anthropologists,
there are studies about how civilizations break down; and we are
certainly following that pattern. Unfortunately, there’s nothing within
human nature to argue that we won’t go down the ways other civilizations
have gone down. The difference is now, of course, that when we go down,
the whole planet is going to go with us.
Yet you rebel
not only for what you can achieve, but for who you become. In the end,
those who rebel require faith — not a formal or necessarily Christian,
Jewish or Muslim orthodoxy, but a faith that the good draws to it the
good. That we are called to carry out the good insofar as we can
determine what the good is; and then we let it go. The Buddhists call it
karma, but faith is the belief that it goes somewhere. By standing up,
you keep alive another narrative. It’s one of the ironic points of life.
That, for me, is what provides hope; and if you are not there, there is
no hope at all.